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 Post subject: Economic Immersion Mod (concept)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:22 am 
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So let me start off by saying that, I for a long time have been disappointed with the economy of Victoria as a whole, including that of Vicky 1. The way I see it the economy needs a complete retooling. I'm going to highlight a plethora of ideas I have in mind. I also have a few other tweaks in mind. The core idea will be highlighted in Green. Secondary ideas in Blue. Flavors in Yellow.

Trade

Trade embargoes - Nations aren't going to be sending goods to everyone. It only makes sense that a nation has the ability to direct its mercantile (Capitalists, Clerks, Aristocrats, & Artisans) classes from delivering goods to their enemies or nations with which they're trying to influence in one way or another.

Trade missions - Lets say you find a lowly nation out their, perhaps they're not even civilized. But lets say your infamy is too high. Well obviously you can influence them, but perhaps you want to facilitate their growth or peacefully absorb them. Maybe you just want to exploit their resources to bolster your own economy.

Comprehensive Trade - Who says you need to trade with the entire world, or perhaps you just want to direct the flow of your trade, perhaps more profit can be made by selling to nation A versus nation B. Maybe you don't want to sell anything at all, and artificially raise them to more eye-catching prices.

Improved UI & extra tabs - Complimentary to the above items.

Smugglers - Those pesky embargoes whether dictated from magistrates in grand palaces or commanded by naval superiority off the coast. The player can either encourage smuggling or discourage it, both will have pros and cons. Say a larger or formidable opponent has you blockaded and your goods need to loaded and shipped, or perhaps you need to ship goods out to turn a profit. But perhaps you want to covertly rip your adversary apart, perhaps they banned something. Now you have the opportunity to smuggle goods into their country and bolster the criminal underground.

Piracy & Privateers - Remember those smugglers? Well they took a liking to crime, and now they're out patrolling the seas. Pirates are like rebels of the sea, and function somewhat similar. Although they have a tendency to raid your shipments of goods, looks like you'll be busy patrolling your big *** navy. No parking your fleet to reduce supply consumption. The way it'll work is, the closer they are to your coast, the more goods you'll lose. Privateers will function in a similar fashion. Although slightly different, they can either be directed to patrol your waters for you at a price or prey on your victims. Pirates will port up in Africa until it is colonized. Privateers function as pirates to other nations, they can turn into non-aligned pirates as time goes on which will cause them to prey on you.

New Goods - Liquor will be divided into 4 distinct variations. Rum, Whiskey, Vodka, & Sake. Hemp will be added, it will have the effect as a substitute. It will provide function for clipper-convoys, clothing, drugs. Naval supplies will be added as a requirement for Smugglers, Pirates/Privateers, & regular navies. Copper, and a few other metals, and perhaps even a variety of tree.

Mercantile classes - The AI for these pop types will be reworked according to literacy, and according to specifics of the type. Capitalists will build factories and focus mainly of trading industrial goods across the world, but will sell any commodity. Going to add some common sense coding so Capitalists build factories more intelligently. Clerks and Artisans will compete to trade consumer goods, but Artisans will also trade in Industrial goods when profitable, and Clerks will trade in Agricultural when profitable. Aristocrats will maintain a metaphorical monopoly over the others on agricultural goods, and will not trade in anything else.

Warden - Until I can think of a better name for these helpers of Aristocrats this is what I'll call them. They work to boost productivity of RGOs, similar in scope to that of the relationship between clerk and capitalist. They can be encouraged, and will require similar needs to the clerk. They will promote Aristocrats over a period of time. Ideal for limited industrialist type of player.


Warfare

Tanks - They need a good buff, with a slight increase in price & supply consumption.

Naval Blockades - This should not shut down all of your factories unless you can't obtain the goods through any other means, example, land trade or a home providence. Only if it directly impacts your economy should a blockade cause any war-exhaustion, and it should be anchored to how much it impacts your economy. Bigger nations are most vulnerable, obviously.

Supply Lines - A new dynamic that can effect the way war is waged, now a weak, less impressive, losing side can make a comeback.


Diplomacy

New options - Defensive Alliances, Non-Aggression pacts, Trade status, etc.

Religion/Culture/Politics - To reflect real-life bias and discrimination, these will play a role in aspects of a few areas of this game. This is something I'm still thinking through, but in theory it should allow an interesting dynamic. Sending missionaries or being a Pluralistic/Secularized nation will play a much bigger role in game-play an adversely effect how you manage your empire. Moralistic and Atheistic societies likely not fare well. Things such as Slavery, political administration, and social reforms will play a bigger impact. Alliances will also be effected, so choose your friends wisely.

Politics

Civil War - Buff rebels, create a dynamic reason to satisfy your population, socially and economically.

Laws - Don't like something? Ban it, regulate it. Or maybe you do like something? Encourage it, Nationalize it. You could always laissez faire it though. But beware of banning things, a black market is sure to follow.

Reforms - Prostitution, booze, drugs, gambling, smuggling, piracy.

Crime - Impacted by the choices you make, notably if you don't satisfy your population. They'll either rise up against you, or turn to the underground and do dastardly deeds. Such is this with smuggling, which can be encouraged, but will become a reality whether you like it or not, unless you make it unprofitable that is. A pro-active approach must be taken if you're going to keep these things from getting out of hand, it's not about adjusting the slider anymore.

Taxes - Now it can produce crime, and will be tied into aspects of smuggling. Tax your pops too high, tariffs driving away potential trade? In come the smugglers. Budgets will require more thought, otherwise you'll wreck your economy, unless you nationalize.


Notes

Lets clear some things up about balance and abuse prevention.

The new aspects in the economy will ideally come with stops and checks. Such as if someone withholds too much it can have adverse effects, such as waste which will cost money to cleanup or suffer a life-rating penalty if left unchecked. Hoard all you want, but it'll cost you.

Trade missions will require upkeep similar to colonial holdings. Reactionary sentiment in the respective unciv-country will be bolstered as to reflect the populations feelings of being exploited or losing cultural identity, careful steps must be taken as peaceful absorption takes place, for reactionary sentiment increases. It will also be kept in check by allowing others to compete, initially it will cost naval points and diplomacy. But after that it will rely heavily on diplomatic points. Influencing said nation can help, but it will also require immigration to said unciv-country, which will be balanced with tech, events, culture, and religious views. In short, anyone with an edge can come out victorious, it's not a one size fits all approach, and will take a good amount of time and investment.

Unemployed or poverty stricken pops will turn into Smugglers will turn into Pirates. Pirates can be hired via the military tab at a medium-high price, and always maintain a moderately low militancy, they include a slider for settings their wage, the lower you set it the higher the militancy. If not under any employ, they will port in any number of unclaimed African ports and conduct raids on an ascending list of nations based on the limited range in which a pirate can venture. Example, Somali pirates won't be attacking the US, and they won't attack Europe until the canal is built. If pirates are not destroyed at sea and successfully make it back to port, they will continue to spawn pirates which will be capped a certain reasonable level, after that pirates will disperse to neighboring regions of Africa to fill the gap of less successful pirate raids. Colonization will also have an added annoyance now because you will claim the territory only to realize you now need to destroy their fleet, lest you losing your newly acquired territory after a year of blockade. The only way the pirate ported can be outed if to claim. After Africa is claimed, piracy will level off to a minor reoccurring annoyance. Rebel held ports will also spawn pirates after the course of 3 months, and this goes for anywhere in the world.

The new goods will be added to balance the vanilla and modded version of the game. Metals will create ships and brigades of varying degrees of quality and quantity as well as fetch different prices, woods will play a role in quality and quantity of ships across the world. Hemp will substitute cotton, and wool. Hemp will be the drug of choice for the lower class, as opium will be for the higher classes. Liquor will play a role in satisfying different cultures and classes within your empire, wine will play a similar role.

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 Post subject: Re: Economic Immersion Mod (concept)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:24 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Economic Immersion Mod (concept)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:25 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Economic Immersion Mod (concept)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:28 am 
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Feel free to leave comments on how you feel about this concept, suggestions, tweaks, concerns are all welcome, even criticism.

If you have any skills in coding, or graphical design feel free to contact me. Right now I'm just gonna focus on the green portion since this is my first modding experience in many years.

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 Post subject: Re: Economic Immersion Mod (concept)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:28 am 
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main problem is that 90% of this isn't possible(embargos for instance), or completely breaks game balance (these are HUGE changes, many of which would increase militancy in the population. More ways to gain militancy = buffing immigration.)

It honestly sounds far too much like PDM. Many huge changes and the actual gameplay ends up suffering immensely.

Is this supposed to be a concept idea for Victoria 3 or something?


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 Post subject: Re: Economic Immersion Mod (concept)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:18 pm 
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I agree with Guren's comment about drastic changes and limits of modding.

Also, maybe this should be moved under "General"?


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 Post subject: Re: Economic Immersion Mod (concept)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:03 pm 
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Well I would think some of my ideas would be implemented into Vicky 3, namely the Green.

All in all it's just brainstorming, and it's something I can work with and see where it takes me. I already made note to DSCH yesterday that I was quite sure I was being too ambitious for my own good, that's why I color-coded the damn thing xD.

But yes, it would require some real attention to detail to balance all of this. Although, is the Green section really all that game breaking or huge? For instance, I could in theory streamline some aspects if the UI could be rebuilt to functionality. I was also hoping that once I created a functional Capitalist AI that I could create a hands off effect for those who can't handle all of the micromanaging, or simply want less of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Economic Immersion Mod (concept)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:01 pm 
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Moved to general discussion.


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 Post subject: Re: Economic Immersion Mod (concept)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:52 pm 
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SugarTitsJr. wrote:
Well I would think some of my ideas would be implemented into Vicky 3, namely the Green.

All in all it's just brainstorming, and it's something I can work with and see where it takes me. I already made note to DSCH yesterday that I was quite sure I was being too ambitious for my own good, that's why I color-coded the damn thing xD.

But yes, it would require some real attention to detail to balance all of this. Although, is the Green section really all that game breaking or huge? For instance, I could in theory streamline some aspects if the UI could be rebuilt to functionality. I was also hoping that once I created a functional Capitalist AI that I could create a hands off effect for those who can't handle all of the micromanaging, or simply want less of it.



Embargoes are huge, and could arguably break game balance (although I'd be in favor just because of how good it would be to have it).

There is no need to mess with capitalists, you're not going to improve the AI much if at all, and why would you want to buff democracy's anyways?


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 Post subject: Re: Economic Immersion Mod (concept)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:29 pm 
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Technically embargoes already exist. I've come to realize that when you go to war with another country that trade ceases between the two warring countries. But when you blockade a country in a time of war it also has the same effect on a much larger scale as goods can't be transported to sea. So how would creating an effective peace-time embargo break the game?

Well that precisely beats the point of this mod, I do want to mess with the Capitalist AI. However, I fail to see how this would "buff" democracies. Democracies can elect all sorts of parties. But I'm sure that wasn't your point, and democracy was just a placement word.

To spell out exactly what I'm focused on solely, for the time being, is fixing the way that Capitalists respond to the world around them. I want them to still function in a linear fashion, not that I can make them sentient beings, but I want the... pathways in which they choose to do one thing or another to be broadened and polished.

Lets say for example you have a set of 2,000 capitalists in a given region. They are ready to build, now what do they build? Now I'm sure the way it's scripted dictates that they want to maximize potential profit. However, it's not a logical function.

I want them to take into account other aspects of the global economy.
- Such as how many active craftsman/clerks exist.
- How many potential craftsman/clerks can exist in a set number of years given their needs can be mostly met.
- Artisan competition.
- What the world prices are indicating.
- Inventions and technological knowledge.
- Infrastructure availability.
- What other Capitalists are doing.
- Given domestic resources and bonuses for building in a given area.

In short I want them to operate in an improved linear manner guided by the in-game supply and demand scale, tied to and dependent on the literacy level of said group of Capitalists.

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